Out of area Hackney carriages: By I.S.

August 22nd, 2008 • Related • Filed Under

I was recently asked to air my views and beliefs on the situation that faces us all, on the issue of â€˜out of areaâ€™ Hackney Carriages working as private hire within Newcastle and beyond.

Many of you may think you know ALL about the situation, and what has gone on before, and how we are present position, and as one of the people accused of bringing this situation to light I take this opportunity to put my story forward.

After the high court decision in 2001 on cross border hiring of private hire vehicles, Blue Line were instructed by North Tyneside Council that we could no longer use Newcastle Hackney Carriages on our fleet, which we had done for as long as I can remember. This resulted in another high court decision the following year, and this time the decision went in our favour declaring Hackney Carriages could be used for private hire bookingsâ€™; and for those of you who can remember, for a short time we ourselves and some other drivers got cars plated in TYNEDALE, and, after proving the point resulting in the councilsâ€™ having to accept this could be done, drivers soon realised this was not worth the aggravation, and the point had simply been made.

The ruling sat in abeyance until 2006, when I requested North Tyneside Council to licence a driver of Polish nationality, who at the time of application held three badges from other councils within the UK; Plymouth, Penrith and Berwick. After several months and much playing for time by delayed or cancelled council meetings, North Tyneside in their wisdom requested that the enforcement team investigate all 28 EU countries and their criminal record procedures, (to which we still have no answer to some two years later). It was my belief that North Tyneside were simply reluctant to allow EU drivers to work as PH or Hackney drivers within North Tyneside, for what ever reason.

It was then that I chose to dig the ruling from the high court on hackneys working as private hire cars out of the cupboard, and exercise this ruling once again.

Since then many drivers have chose to do the same for various reasons of their own, be it for conditions set on cars or types of cars or the long waits for taxi tests because they only have one outlet we all must use, or in some cases simply because they are sick of being pushed around by the authorities they work for, or because working under costs dictated unfairly by the authority. For what ever their reasonâ€™s, drivers have chosen to move their businesses; in this case to Berwick Upon Tweed, which are accused
of many things, but what many people fail to understand is they must issue plates in accordance with the rules they are bound by as do all councils.

One thing we must all agree on is that the law need to be addressed, and in the words of Lord Justice Kennedy in 1999 after a case of cross border hiringâ€™s; â€˜the law needs to reflect the state of technology and not be 23 years behind itâ€™

We are now in a situation of having an influx of cars being plated â€œOUT OF
AREASâ€ because of the obstructiveness of local authorities or their failing to give us the service we deserve and demand to run businesses!

Councils have indeed allowed this exact same function to operate at our proud international airport where people often arrive for the first time to see so many different plated cars from their respective areas. The band wagon of experts have yet to be critical of the driverâ€™s who have sold and made a killing from their Newcastle Hackney plates only to then re-plate themselves in various areas at alleged cheaper prices but yet still work the airport within the Newcastle boundary, but I am told this is ok as its private land!! Well I am sorry itâ€™s the principle in my eyes that counts, and these people are doing the same â€œalleged misdemeanourâ€ as any â€œout of area carâ€.

Anyway, we are were all in the situation we are in for what ever reason and we can not change this fact, so itâ€™s now down to the courts to settle the fight between Councils! And this in itself may not bring good news for some, as one possible outcome is that a Judge could rule that hackneys cannot work as Private Hire Cars! But this would mean even when you are in your own area!! So such practices as working a radio circuit or taking a booking off a mobile phone could be deemed illegal and a hackney could only conduct itself as a hackney and return to the nearest rank as is determined in the outdated law which the judge does not have the freedom to change only enforce as it is written, meaning you could be found to have no insurance when conducting these jobs, which councils will have to enforce and prosecute!! So please be careful what your wish for as asking questions of such out dated laws may bring bad news not good as many practices have been excepted rather than implemented by law!!

And if this situation were to become reality the hackneys that are wheelchair adapted would no longer be able to be reached by the disabled person by either phone or radio circuit, and would now have to be flag the in the street by the disabled people themselves.

â€œNow arenâ€™t we getting stupid! But this could be reality!â€

Smaller offices who have to operate by means of diverting calls from the office to the driver in his car during such times of the early part of the mornings or through staff shortages or even those that may be in a rural area, actually break the law as it becomes the driver not the operator taking the booking in a car that may not even be in his own district!! This practice is carried out all over the country as it is needed for those smaller operations for cost effectiveness but it is breaking the law and passengers become uninsured!
Yet council after council do nothing about these situations and are fully aware of them being carried out.

â€œBut stop panicking as this is not what this particular case will resolve, this is simply just about if a council is acting correct by issuing plates knowing that they are to work out the area they are licensed, and conducting private hire work. Oh isnâ€™t that what the 7 or so councils have been doing at the airport for 20 years or more!â€

What we really need is for the Authorities around the country and the trade to go on mass and in force to the transport minister and insist something is done to bring our transport laws for Taxis and PH into the 20th century and allow us to prove ourselves as the true public transport system we are!!

Whilst many of you are blaming the Berwick cars for a reduction in trade and your takings can we all remember many of the Berwick badged drivers are ex Newcastle or North Tyneside etc badged drivers, who have moved across for
various reasons and itâ€™s the driver of the car not the car or plate that maybe breaking the law and â€œFLIMPINGâ€ Those drivers are likely to be doing it regardless of the plated vehicle they drive as this is not a new problem, but sadly a very old problem. What we commonly need and have needed for many years is the enforcement we pay for to be out there enforcing!! I want my cars to work my radio circuit and cover my office work and you want your livings to be made!

We all have our place in this job Private hire should be working the radio circuits and pre bookings not working the streets as that for the hackneys!! But we all do have one common connection! We take people from A to B for hire and reward, and in a strange way we need to work together as an industry and not show people we are fighting against each other as we are.

I hope this letter is taken by you as a small clarification of a very long complex problem and not my total take on the situation.

â€œWe just need modern realistic laws that allow our trades to operate efficiently. Be it as individuals or offices.â€

aaa

There Are 44 Responses So Far. »

Comment by jimmy1 on 22 August 2008:

I.S This article is very interesting as I was and still am under the impression that we are in this situation because of the author of this article but that’s another story. Regarding hacks not being allowed to work from offices I personnally would welcome this as we may get back to a workable size fleet,instead of lines and lines of black taxis doing nothing.How many of these new plated hacks are just private hire and how many would chuck in their plates if they couldn’t work an office? I always said that wheelchair accessible vehicles should have been plated Private hire as most wheelchair users will phone for a Taxi. We were once told by the Council that Wheelchair accessible Taxis would generate a lot of extra work for us.It didn’t happen,wheelchair users,on the whole still phone their local firm and we are left sitting behind lots of black vans blocking streets and choking up town centres.

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Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 23 August 2008:

A haphazard response from the King himself!!!!
He wrote “Many of you think you know ALL about the situation”, well the bad news is we do!, it’s simple you have a Authority that will License anyone or in some cases anything!, and the big operators cannot wait to get there greedy Mits on the rent and car payments, as well as these fleet Insurance payments, from foreign Drivers!.
Secondly I observed a element of the infamous “the Race card”, NT Council being reluctant to dish out Badges to our new EU associates??, so they should be, us the Britsih local lads have to declare everything for the CRB check, and if you have for example put a window out when you were 12 yrs old and you are now 50!, Mr N & Co cannot wait to dish out a warning to you before your Badge is given!
While you were building up your empire 20 years ago, Poland were part of the “Warsaw Pact”, and they would have been more than happy to help the USSR (Russia) attack us if WW3 were to have broken out!, so what do we know about former Iron curtain folk and their criminal system?????…So any decent Council has the right to screen Eastern European folk!.
If you had a immigrant driver with THREE badges, then why could’nt he/she just work in the respective Councils, without sounding judgemental, most immigrants rent houses and flats and are just happy to be in the UK, so a driver with a Eden badge could just look for rented accomodation around his Licensing authority, and he could be fully legal when working!!…and not upset the proper drivers!!!!!!!!
Out of town Plates/badges are just easy to obtain for Foreign drivers and quick extra income for the hungry operator who has no respect for the drivers that have taken the time to obtain a Badge within their Local Authority.
REMEMBER ALL BIG OPERATORS!, IT WAS NORTH TYNESIDE COUNCIL THAT MADE YOU, OPERATORS LICENSE AND UNLIMITED NUMBER OF PH BADGES AND PLATES OVER THE YEARS FOR YOUR EVER EXPANDING POCKETS!!
Come on the “Toon” 15th September!!!….and I don’t mean those other overpaid folk with Black and white shirts either!

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Comment by sammy on 24 August 2008:

Very good article, It’s good to know the history of this carry on.
I thought NTMBC would have bolloxed it somewhere down the line! I would still be happier if they (Berwick Plated cars)all f@*!ed off to Berwick though.

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Comment by yt on 24 August 2008:

First of all,can I thank I.S for responding to my request.A detailed reply and his views are noted.
My personal take on the situation is,yes,this practice has been going for a lot of years.I don’t have a problem with “out of area” Hacks working as private hire vehicles.IF THAT IS WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DO!
But,unfortunately,this is not the case.Many have seen this as an easy way to get themselves a Hackney Carriage.Some have deliberately got black cars.Some have blatantly got the wrong topsign.Most have the topsign illuminated at night.
The day will come when an “out of area” Hack picks up a fare which it is NOT INSURED TO and is involved in an horrific accident.If that car has a BlueLine sticker on the side,then how will you feel!?

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Comment by yt on 25 August 2008:

Shanksy,look on the gallery,last picture,is that O.K my man?

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Comment by the nutty professor on 25 August 2008:

Well excuse me YT if your going to start accusing ALL out of area cars of these things i would be very careful you may get out of your depth with that yes some have got black cars and some may have the wrong top signs but not all and if they decide to HACK then i will agree let them suffer the consequences of there actions but can you tell me how many North Tyne side hack and private hire actually have insurance which is valid and how many have been caught without also before this gets totally out of hand i don’t have a black car and i do have insurance which is valid

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Comment by Sam Harrington on 26 August 2008:

I worked the August bank holiday and thankfully it was quite busy in Whitley Bay. For the hours i worked i made good money.

One thing i did notice was a Blue Line Berwick plated Renault saloon car outside of Eden (the Royal), it stood out because you do not see many of them on as taxis and also it had a female driver. I have been driving taxis for well over 10 years now, and i may be wrong, but i would say she was flimping, cherry-picking, call it what you want. This is not a dig at Blue Line because Eastcoast are 10 times worse. I remember in days gone by, Rank Taxis in North Shields would not tolerate his drivers flimping because he wanted them available for office work, they would get warnings, then if they persisted they would be out the door.

Why do current office owners complain about outdated laws etc but let their drivers break them. If they sacked the flimpers, the flimpers would soon be known and would become unemployable, problem solved.

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Comment by NeedMeRanks on 26 August 2008:

â€œWe just need modern realistic laws that allow our trades to operate efficiently. Be it as individuals or offices.â€ So Says Mr.Shanks. Well we’ve got laws and one of them States “It is an offence for any person to cause or permit any vehicle other than a hackney carriage to wait on any stand for hackney carriages.” How can I ‘operate efficiently’ when the ranks have got East coast or Blueline cars sitting on them? As Responsible operators you should be making it clear to your drivers that they cannot do this and by doing so they are causing YOU to break the law by permitting them to do so.

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Comment by I.S on 26 August 2008:

FAO. Sam Harrington

As outside of Eden is not a recognised rank by North Tyneside Council, it is perfectly acceptable that A Blueline car (no matter where it is licensed) pick up a pre booked fare, and due to the fact that you think she was “cherry picking” would indicate that she was being approached by members of the public and she was refusing, due to not being booked for the person approaching the car, and she was in fact just waiting for the job she was booked for?

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Comment by I.S on 26 August 2008:

FAO NeedMeRanks

Please provide evidence supporting your allegations that as a company we permit any permit any vehicle other than a hackney carriage to wait on any stand for hackney carriages?

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Comment by ian shanks on 26 August 2008:

regardless of what you think of myself or blue line taxis, i am here to run a business and make a living the same as you men but in a slightly larger scale creating employment for hundreds of drivers and staff.
while i highly respect what you do, it is wrong for you to be so judgemental of our company because it may have become more successful than some others through investment and risk taking

my views and thoughts of drivers flimping are strong in that i want my drivers to work my radio circuit and cover my bookings not the streets, or over charging with my office name attached to their cars.

i have and do discipline drivers for their wrong doing, and their is a host of drivers out their that can verify that,if they were man enough to admit their dishonesty. i have employed people to attempt to “FLIMP” our cars, and had on occasions success, leading to the dismissal of the drivers concerned.

but this should be the work of enforcement officers to protect not only you but the public that they so often speak about protecting.

for those of you that have your fixed perceptions of me i will not attempt to change your views i will also not respond to anyone who does not have the courage to put there names to questions or comments, but choosing to hide behind a bogus names or ID’s

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Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 26 August 2008:

Dear I.S.
You wrote in the featured Article “North Tyneside are reluctant to license EU Drivers”, Judgemental or Discrimination, you may have a point!
But people it’s back to that old saying “people in glass houses should’nt throw stones”, I recently enquired about working for you!, as a Company Car driver, I was told “NO” because of where I currently work.
It was NOT you personally, but the person who said “NO” in a aggresive manner would’nt ELABORATE why!, is’nt this the same scenario that you encountered with NT regarding EU/Eastern European folk??????, A BIG NO NO WITH NOTHING TO SUBSTANTIATE IT!!!!!!
Regards
Stephen

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Comment by admin on 26 August 2008:

I do agree with a lot of what Ian Shanks says but it is difficult for Taxi drivers who are continually confronted by Blue Line and East coast Private Hire cars,among others, sitting on Ranks where we have to try and make our living,it’s difficult when you have a website such as this not to sound judgemental.We all take risks, we all invest! as Ian says on different scales. As we feel nobody is listening this is the one place we can vent,So on behalf of all hacks I apologise if we sound too harsh. Ian is fond of saying things like “show me Evidence” & “allegations” & “challenge the legality” but feels he can say, with no evidence whatsoever that North tyneside hacks were to blame for and I quote “its down to years of poor service and drivers ripping off passengers that DFDS took the action of banning the hack drivers from their site.” That is what you call being Judgemental! As I said before I agree with a lot of what Ian Shanks says but maybe we could all be a little less judgemental and direct some serious questions at North Tyneside council. E.G. The Zoning Policy, which is not used in the way it was laid out, I.E. each zone having written permission and planning permission, not every street corner or any empty Taxi Rank, We have Video and photographic evidence of Blue Line, East Coast & Central cars breaking all the rules Re:Zoning. If office proprietors are so keen to show their professionalism they will tell their drivers that they must zone in a responsible way,a way that does not impinge on the activities of the Legitimate Hackney Carriage trade. Then we can run our businesses,on a slightly smaller scale. Small or large it’s just business at the end of the day, is it too much to ask for ‘Fair Play’?

M.G.Fereday Administrator ToomanyTaxis.com

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Comment by ian shanks on 26 August 2008:

whilst i do not see this as a drivers forum i am keen to answer peoples fair questions or points. and shall attempt to do so for the last two entry’s only to which after that anyone may contact me on my email address.(please remember i will not respond to ID’s or bogus names)

Stephen i am sorry for the response you received but this is another instance of what control i have over certain actions staff or as we have discussed drivers do !! i only can rectify or take action once i have found out which is always after a event.

i will admit to having said that we have never had any successful drivers from central who stay with us and after the work carried out to train and fit the cars out we end up simply removing it soon after as drivers from this office only don’t seem to settle with us for what ever reason. if my staff have turned that it to “we do not want drivers from the office in question” this is wrong and i apologise for the way you were spoken to. i only ask why such drivers would not come to the horses mouth if they doubted what they had been informed !

admin

if drivers are doing what you suggest and attempting to “FLIMP” this is were we should not be fighting against each other and spending our time getting the enforcement that we all require to deal with the drivers that do such things !! remember i want the security of knowing my firms name is not attached to drivers carrying people with may not be insured because they “FLIMPED” the job.

I do not remember ever saying what you claim I have said but now you have suggested that, i ask you why the DFDS looked for another supplier of taxis as i did not knock on their door !! it may, and i suggest may as i don’t really know, been because there was often not enough cars as we have sometimes struggled to supply enough cars at certain times and that’s between two offices with a far larger pool of cars to draw from than the hackney association. it may be because the management had become aware that a tariff two was being used from this rank (to which i am not sure of)

it may have been because of a lot of things, i honestly don’t know ! as i can only tell you that Eastcoast were approached who then contact ourselves to form a joint venture and a fleet large enough to supply cars and specialist vehicles beyond anyone else.

the zoning policy was a cover up for the council to hide there incompetence of plating more cars than there was operators and room on the operators licences for. i think they at the time had about two or three hundred more cars on the road than all operators licences put together would have covered.

thank you for the opportunity of answering a few questions and allowing my points to be heard !! weather they have been welcomed or not !! as i have said this is not a drivers forum so i will avoid further debates on your site

ian shanks

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Comment by admin on 26 August 2008:

This site is still evolving and whilst it may not be a forum in the traditional sense, I can only say that for the first time I have witnessed serious debate and that can only be good. Thankyou to everyone who has submitted comments thus far and maybe we will get more of the same in the future from new visitors to the site.

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Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 27 August 2008:

Mr Shanks
Thank you for your explanation, it’s nice to see an Operator talking on this site opposed to just drivers and the odd Idiot that slags the Hacks off and never comes on here again.
Quickly mentioning Central, not all the Central Drivers are Neanderthals!, and like I said in my earlier comments on this site Central is not the only problem within the trade.
BACK TO THE ISSUE!
You cannot take offence at what has been said on here by the Hacks and even sometimes me, these Guys are only highlighting the problems that we encounter on the streets!, at first I didn’t agree with them, if you look at my first comments you will see, however anyone who is trying to address the problems within the trade from grass roots level deserves respect.
Regards
Stephen

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Comment by john dodds on 27 August 2008:

In response to the comment concerning a `berwick` plated car from Blueline waiting outside Eden.
I`ve been a newcastle hack for over 15 years now,but started at Whitley taxis,Coast and Rank,and in all that time,there has never been an official rank put at Eden or `the Royal`..call it what u like,and that was going back to when old Sid McCoullack had the place. I dont agree with much that our friend Mr Shanks says or does,and Mr Shanks,if North Tyne council were not happy with your friends from overseas records,or had `any reasonable doubt` about their suitability to act as Taxi Drivers,the council was well within their rights to refuse a license…as they did. It`s `PUBLIC SAFETY` you know..not some operators bank ballance they must consider.
However.Shanksy has 1 valid point,if our local authority,be it Newcastle,North Tyne,or anywhere else,carried out their enforcement activities as indeed they are required to,then this whole sorry mess would have been sorted long ago.
As was stated by the other reader Mr Shanks,IF as you say your Polish friend already held a badge in other areas, Penrith,Plymouth.etc,is there some reason why that driver had to move away up here,and not continue working in those places,some reason of a legal nature I wonder..or is he a strange sort of sandwich that has a fetish for collecting as many badges in different ares as he can.
Anyway…getting back to the Eden business…It states in the miscellaneous provitions (town and Police clauses act 1976)…that a vehicle standing in a public place,in such a manner as to lead a member of the public to think that the vehicle is/or maybe `FOR HIRE` constitutes `PLYING FOR HIRE`. This being the case,a blueline car,irrespective of whether the vehicle is N T licensed,or Berwick,if the vehicle license is for `private hire` purposes then that vehicle was `ILLEGALLY PLYING FOR HIRE`.
Private hire may not park in any public place longer than is needed to pick up their fare,I would say 3/5 minutes is reasonable,after all If I book a car,im usually waiting at the door for it.
I would also ask Mr Shanks,if the cars he regularly has standing at the Monument,Gallowgate Flame,Power House,Munchies(both st Mary`s place and Percy street) and last but not least,Neville St ajacent to the Central Stn…if not in the station portico,opposite our office window….I assume these cars are all booked….are they. Mostly all Berwick plates with `Blue Line` plastered all over them.
Just to end…Mr Shanks…If these cars are all booked….how come on at least 3 occasions last week,you had more cars at the Central waiting for YOUR bookings,than the F*****g train had people on it.
Or was that due to a breakdown in comms between your selves and National Express East Coast..who happened to drop them off at other stations and neglect to tell you…..shame on them.
Assuming the Judge gets it wrong next month,I wonder if Mr Shanks will send cars down to Darlington,York,Doncaster,as he claims or tries to claim even more of the pie.
What a pity we dont have a mayor or council like Mr Mallon at the Borough.

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Comment by micky on 27 August 2008:

Ian you are full of sh!t ii… i call u a special breed of vultues now i know that your management tell lies and that yore office is bent now that is bad enough but you dont give a stuff about yore drivers i know i am 1 of them …. Shame on me to have your logo on my car it means iam cheep myself. but not as low as you there is a lot of greed in the world, but you know cant take it with you and you are a long time dead . and calling yore own sister will not help things either if you wanted respect thr drivers that you dismissed for whatever reason !! so why have you taken them back on i know some regular customers have told me some storys about these berwick / derwentside plates but when a customer askes to be taken to kingston park and the driver dont know were it is takes the biscuit then to top it all to have investors in passenger saftey on the side of company cars acts as an insult as you dont spend a penny on that as i had company cars that done less than half the work as mine done in a state that is not fit to be on the road ie Bald tyres and worn out brakes, wishbones and other things makes you a tight tight ar5ethat dont care about customers/drivers all you are intersted in is monday when the money comes in weather the driver can afford it or not is not yore problem take my freind tony did you put any money in his box when we colrcted for hom when he got stabbed? i bet u did not and all he doning was do his job and then yopu stiched him up. The cost of living is not free you know that i cant live on fresh air petrol/diesel cost money …. as you should know you can aford a range rover sport … i can bearly pay my morgage and feed my children but nevermind you still get your bit. What u say about drivers id…. they have familys to lookafter and bills to pay youwould not think of shoving them out the door as you have 50 people waiting to start . O yeah whit no knolage on what to do not thet ypou care as long as you get paid if you had half a brain and a clear mind ask youeself 1 thing why do drivers go flimping becase they dont get what they need to live on from tha office and then left with no cjhoice and this is what we and i say i pay ypu Â£100 per week for so come on get it right for a change money is the only way and it ia greed all we ask for is a fair share and i feel i am being sold short

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Comment by ian shanks on 27 August 2008:

you have tempted me to another reply !!

i will be instructing my staff to evaluate correctly any application from a central driver if we are every to receive one !! as i agree with you they are not all bad.

i have not, and will not let myself take offence at other peoples views or beliefs ! as this is their views and i have mine.

as far as the problems the hackney drivers experience, in my view has not been helped by the reluctance of the hackney trade to mix with the private hire trade !! i refer to the reluctance of the likes of Mr Sneddon and his associations refusing to be included in meetings (which i have experienced my self) with the likes of the council and them having to hold the same meeting twice.

while we ourselves create a this animosity between us it will always become hard to resolve such problems. i myself would like a working relationship with the hackney trade so we can help one another with problems that drivers may cause or do ! but this needs the barriers brought down of the THEM and US so we can at least start talking.

i remember well when Mr Elvin Johnson and since his family have rang us up and informed us of cars sitting in places they should not have been we then have spoke to drivers and informed them not to park in such places. its little things like this we need to help or inform each other of so we all can help each other !!

in reality people shout and ball and call each other names or simply get awkward ! and backs get put up !!

the answer to this is not a quick fix because of some peoples attitude, but i believe we need a working relationship between the trades so that if a driver does something wrong that the operator will soon be informed of it from the hacks who may have seen him and that it will result in being disciplined, in our office its three strikes and your out (or one big one)

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Comment by ian shanks on 27 August 2008:

micky ! why on earth are you working here if you feel this way ??

as far as tony goes yes we did put in money the collection we in fact doubled what the staff collected.
tony was also offered and excepted a job in our office as you should know, and it was his inability to work in a office environment after so many years on the road that let him down as he failed to cover his shifts. he now works for us as a driver again now that he has regained his confidence.

as far as investment in anything do you know anyone else who has invested as much as this company has in technology and systems, cars and garage facilities for drivers as we have done ??

how you spend, or waist your money is your choice you should not envy what people do with theirs! i suggest you grow your hair and put it in a “PONY TAIL” as behind every pony’s tail that i know is a ARSE HOLE and your one of them. learn to talk about things you know about and join a creche !!

any way i now know again why some people simply put the barriers up as they don’t need this mindless attack of abuse and slagging.

so i am sorry for those of you who we could have debated things with i hope you understand why i am going to withdraw my views from this site

ps Mr Dodds the driver simply moved to the area with his friends as they share living costs and his friends contracts brought them here !! stop being so bad minded and suspicious after all we have had our friends and family’s working abroad in bars hotels and such like for many more years than they have here !

anyway good luck with the site.

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Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 28 August 2008:

Dear Mr Shanks
I have read that you wish to withdraw your views from this site, but can you confirm what I was told tonight by one of YOUR customers (Well!, former customer).
I picked a young Lady up tonight from the Ferry landing, “Don’t worry”, I mean the Shields Ferry by the way!, not the infamous DFDS one, anyway!, she got into my car and said Wallsend please!, I asked her where abouts and she replied next to the “Green”, I said OK and headed off towards Wallsend, she described a House to me rather than a Street, I said I was unsure but had a idea it was top of Boyd Road, she apoligised and said she forgot I was “Central” as she normally uses Blueline!, I asked why she had’nt called BLT, she stated that she was a bit disgusted with a journey she encountered the other day in one of your Cars.
The young Lady went on to say that she gets one of your “Taxis” to work every morning, on this occasion a Car pulled up outside her door with two “Men” sitting inside, she thought that one was getting dropped off and the Driver would take her, NO!, she stated that a foreign Driver knocked on the door and said that he was her Taxi?????????, she asked the Driver why their was another Man in the front, but the Driver could’nt understand her, so she got in regretably in the Car, the Man in the Passenger seat stated he was showing the Driver how to do his Job???, The Lady stated that she felt uneasy with two strange men sitting in the front and one of them could speak very little English!.
I asked her if the Journey was free as the Driver was under instruction and she replied “No”, I said to her that she should’nt have got in the Car, if you call a Taxi, it should be one Driver and you!
IS THIS SCENARIO TRUE MR SHANKS????
IF SO!
Do you think thats good practice???
Do you think that a Company with a good reputation should be doing this cr*p??
Do you think that it was fair to send two blokes to pick up a Woman travelling alone???
And whooooo the hell was the Bloody driver??? IF THIS IS TRUE, then please grab a Central Boy when you can!!!
The Guy in the front was probably a Interpreter was he???
LIKE I HAVE STATED, IF THIS IS TRUE I WOULD WELCOME YOUR RESPONSE
THANK YOU
Stephen
P.S> I got this Info of a Customer not Jibber Jabber off another Driver!!!!

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Comment by Ian shanks on 28 August 2008:

this is not and never will be company practice and is totally unacceptable

this is the first i have heard of this as the customer has not mentioned it to us in any way.

we shall endeavour to trace the customer and contact her, and if you can help in any way this would be appreciated,

if the driver is found he will no longer be representing this company as this is not good practice for anyone.

again this comes down to being unable to controls individuals actions, and operators as any employer can do is take action after a event has taken place

i promise you that if this is identified you will hear from me what the out come was !!

many thanks

[Reply]
Comment by ian shanks on 28 August 2008:

we have looked into the situation you described above of two men arriving to pick up a passenger and we believe we have the answer to this !

We at present have a firm called “Distinctive Training” in our offices giving office staff and drivers the opportunity of NVQ qualifications. It has come to light that the trainer for the drivers has carried out some “in-car” training with a few drivers !!

I was not aware of this part of the training, but do see reasoning behind this, but i also see that this does not portray a good example to the fare paying passenger especially as this appears to have not been explained clearly enough to the passenger the purpose of them being in the vehicle and the training they are carrying out is about NVQ qualifications in their customer service skills not on how to be a taxi driver.

i have therefore called a meeting with Distinctive to discuss either the need for this or a full and proper explanation to the customer in they are in fact needing to continue this practice.

many thanks !!

[Reply]
Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 29 August 2008:

Mr Shanks
I take on board what you you say about the training companies practice, I will explain to all of you further.
I am a qualified A1 NVQ Assessor (not Taxi related), I have three NVQ’s myself from Level 2 to Level 4, Level 4 is designed to be management level, level 3 senior/supervisory level and level 2 for the “Worker”!.
Unfortunately NVQ qualifications are “work based”, so after all your written work, you have to have a Assessor/Verifier to observe you do your Job and see how well you do before they will sign you off the course qualified!, If that person was assessing your driver then that it is fair enough, A1 tutors have to do this by Law, observe acute practice, also in some NVQ’s the employer has to complete what NVQ Training companies call “Witness Testimonies”, that means that you or a Manager would have to observe your employees work that is related to the course, ie customer service skills, handling cash etc.
Being involved with NVQ’s, I can tell you all they cause divisions!, don’t you think their is enough within the Taxi trade already???? Divisions!, so just think their will NT Hacks, NT Private Hire, Bandits, Qualified Bandits, Qualified NT Hacks!!!!.
Believe me University admissions hate NVQ’s!!!!, so if any driver thinks it’s a free qualification and wants to use it towards anything else as the Taxi Trade has gone to the dogs….think again!!
N.V.Q’s to persons with a proper education, ie Degree equal ===
N ot V ery Q ualified!
Nice to see you back Mr Shanks, How about these rumours of you and HIM from Station Road Whitley Bay tendering for the Airport??
I stress RUMOURS
Regards
Stephen
P.S. Admin sorry for waffling on about MY qualifications, I sound like Mr Cornetto or that old Git Fiddler!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reply]
Comment by A HACK on 29 August 2008:

I hear the council were out last night and “apparently” they put FOUR central doblos off the road due to being UNROADWORTHY and failing to provide wheelchair acssesable ramps, clamps etc. Then as soon as the council went TWO of them came straight back on the road to work the streets again, does anybody no how true this is ?

[Reply]
Comment by thelighthousekeeper on 30 August 2008:

Hello IAN,

I have read with interest your comments on here and have no intention of trying to annoy you or any of the other Private Hire Proprietors.

Your new advert on the radio goes on about how inexpensive a journey is in one of your companies vehicles compared with other forms of Public Transport providers such as the BUS or METRO does it not, and so why not run your company in the same way the BUS Company or METRO has to operate under their Operator Licences.

You are probably thinking what am I going on about, well let me explain a little bit more the BUS Company and NEXUS the METRO OPERATORS they do not charge weekly rent of Â£100 a week or whatever the rent now is you charge.

Instead they EMPLOY the DRIVER on an hourly wage (above National Minimum Wage) Own all the Vehicles, Tax them, Insure them, Maintain them as the law does not allow them to use SUB-CONTRACTORS that do not have their own Operator Licence in force meaning they CONTROL EVERYTHING TO MAINTAIN A LAWFUL OPERATION OF PUBLIC TRANSPORT.

Now Ian you say you cannot control your drivers actions and you want them to always work your data-system and I applaud you for wanting to ensure this and so why do you not try stopping the Self-Employment of DRIVERS with there own vehicles and Operate with only PAYE DRIVERS on a BASIC WEEKLY WAGE because with the serious money you have invested in technology and GPS TRACKING of the VEHICLES MOVEMENTS when the meter is switched on as it is linked to the data-system would track the distance travelled and record the price for the journey that the customer pays and before clearing the meter the data-system could record the fare shown on the meter that was charged meaning no fiddling could take place with these new systems and the data-system would tell the driver how much they have taking in the shift that could simply be paid in to the company safe at the end of each shift like the BUS COMPANIES do.

THIS WOULD ALL BE POSSIBLE AS THE DRIVER WOULD HAVE TO RETURN TO THE OPERATION CENTRE AT THE END OF THERE SHIFT FOR THE NEXT DRIVER TO TAKE OVER AS YOU WOULD NEED ROSTA DRIVING WITH MEAL BREAKS AND START AND FINISH TIMES FOR THE DRIVERS SHIFTS.

Doing this would of course mean you lose out on that weekly rent, but as you would be recieving all the VEHICLES takings recieved by the DRIVER you would be in total control of your DRIVERS and VEHICLES, MAINTAINENCE OF YOUR FLEET, just like the other PUBLIC TRANSPORT OPERATORS THAT YOU ARE SO KEEN TO COMPARE YOUR PUBLIC TRANSPORT COMPANY WITH.

GOOD DRIVERS WOULD BE ONLY TO HAPPY TO ALLOW YOU TO EMPLOY THEM AS PAYE IF YOUR RATES OF PAY MATCHED THE BUS & METRO DRIVERS HOURLY RATE. BUS DRIVERS CURRENTLY RECIEVE AROUND Â£8.00 PER HOUR FOR A 45 HOUR WEEK MEANING Â£360 A WEEK AND THE METRO DRIVER WELL THAT IS ALOT HIGHER BECAUSE THEY DRIVE TRAINS ON RAILS.

Â£360 A WEEK FOR A DRIVER LESS TAX OF COURSE WOULD PROBABLY MEAN A PRIVATE HIRE DRIVER WOULD PROBABLY SEE HIMSELF WORKING AROUND 15 HOURS A WEEK LESS THAN THE 60 HOURS IF THEY WERE WORKING 6 X 10 HOURS AND THE MONEY AS A WAGE COULD MEAN THEY END UP BETTER OFF THAN WHEN THEY WERE AN OWNER DRIVER DOING AS THEY WANTED.

what is this you must be thinking to yourself?

MARCH 23rd 2009 WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FOR SELF-EMPLOYED MOBILE WORKERS IS ONLY 7 MONTHS AWAY AND WITH THE CORPORATE MANSLAUGHTER ACT 2007 COMING INTO FORCE IN APRIL 2008 MEANING YOU ARE THE SENIOR MANAGEMENT OF YOUR COMPANY SHOULD A VEHICLE NOT BE ROAD WORTHY THEN THE BUCK STOPS AT THE MAN IN CHARGE OF OPERATIONS OR HIS DELEGATED PERSON WITHIN YOUR COMPANY AS YOU HAVE THE PARTNERSHIP OPERATOR LICENCE FOR BLUELINE NOT THE OWNER DRIVER SHOULD SOMEONE DIE.

IT ALWAYS PAYS TO BE THINKING AHEAD WHEN FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS ARE ABOUT TO HAPPEN?

NOTHING IN THIS ARTICLE ACCUSES YOU OF DOING ANYTHING WRONG, ITS JUST A WAY TO CONTROL ALL YOUR DRIVERS, BUT THERE IS A COST INVOLVED.

GOOD LUCK IAN

[Reply]
Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 31 August 2008:

Mr Lighthouse Keeper!
How do you solve a problem of the author of this Article and his sidekick from Station Road??????
SIMPLE!
If a high percentge of the 800 Private Hire Drivers and most of the Hacks form a “not for profit” organisation, then it would be game over in 12-18 months for the big operators.
A NOT FOR PROFIT organisation/Company would attract the Drivers, as they would know that they are not simply lining the Pockets of Millionares, but contributing a fair share of the running costs to a central office (Central I mean in location, not Railway Terrace!).
I will give a quick example of how it would work, but with lower numbers:
Running costs for a office, inc Wages, Heating, Power supply, Admin and Marketing Â£3000!, so if you had 60 drivers, then they would pay only Â£50 per week rent, obviously their rent would lower as the numbers build up, you could appoint a annual Treasurer and elected Manager, so if it’s annual everyone or most will get a chance of running the show!!!
This would keep the Drivers happy and the customers, many customers who use the big two, often comment on how much the owners of the “Big two” earn!, so knowing that a company is driver run, would attract customers.
This idea is not a “Taxi call” type operation, just that the running costs of a office and spread out equally to each driver, and NO BIG HUNGRY GREEDY OPERATOR, laughing at us when fuel was Â£1.31.9p per litre, that was no effect to the operator because their income stayed the same!
If we obtained a Call centre type office in the Cobalt/Silverlink, then it would be at the epicentre, close to all the main Arteries of North Tyneside and beyond!!!.
“Doing” a borough wide not for profit office would give the drivers more work and variety as well as capturing drivers from the big three and the rest of the operators too!, a nice easy Freephone number and one low office rate.
This idea is the only way to stop this monopoly that is damaging Drivers income who are not employed by the big two, their is no point of a couple of Drivers or a local villian or business person starting a rival small office to get one over the big Three, because they end up running away or selling up to the big boys, and that’s no good, it’s just more cars for the big guys!, look at King Street Taxis (Blue Star as they are now), their prices have always been the same as Central’s, where is the business sense in that, 90p start until 10pm, then Â£1.40p thereafter, Preston along the road start there Meters at 80p all day, what was stopping Blue Star from under cutting Central????, so it’s fair to say that no new operator or small one wants to seriously challenge the big boys!!, so a “not for profit” large Taxi firm will hit them, and hopefully Berwick will get beat shortly.
Obviously if something like this started, PH and Hacks would have to learn to get along with each other….it would be worth it to get one over the Big Boys…but we would be big if things turn out OK!
P.S. If a not for profit compnay started up, and it obtained company vehicles, then the Drivers would only pay the running costs, not Â£100-Â£130 for a bloody car plus Â£40 insurance!!! PER WEEK!
Anyway that’s my rant for the day!

[Reply]
Comment by sammy on 31 August 2008:

YES!!! At last someone came out with it. ‘A Co-Operative’ 800 Private Hire Drivers paying Â£10 per week each! 8 Grand per week could set up an office with all mod cons far superior to anything else on offer! Bye Bye Blueline!

[Reply]
Comment by craig on 31 August 2008:

Yes that all sounds good but it would be a case of how many drivers would be willing to take the risk of not making enough money to pay the mortgage and bills etc etc until such a time that there is enough jobs to go between 800 cars?
It’s all well and good paying Â£10 a week rent, but its no good if your only taking Â£20 a shift for the first year is it?

But what i do know is that something has to be done quick because as stated many times before, the taxi trade is going down the pan fast, both private hire and hackney and we need to stick together instead of being down each ohers throats all the time!!!

[Reply]
Comment by sammy on 1 September 2008:

You don’t start it like that.You start an association where members pay weekly dues and with the money you begin to set it up and it grows from there. Have you never heard of NODA?

[Reply]
Comment by craig on 1 September 2008:

Yes i have heard of NODA and also know what NODA stands for, i just didn’t fully understand the procedure but i do now thanks.
I was just under the impression of 800 drivers starting at a new office paying a tenner a week.

I was just having a thick moment sorry.

[Reply]
Comment by ian shanks on 1 September 2008:

and as my father Colin Shanks was one founders of NODA taxis he eventually found out it didnt work !! and thus Blue LIne TAxis was formed,

[Reply]
Comment by yt on 1 September 2008:

Sammy, NODA doesn’t exist anymore.They SOLD OUT to Metro,for something in the region of Â£600,000.

[Reply]
Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 1 September 2008:

Did’nt NODA last for 50 years?, and what about N.H.D.A?
These two were not initially Generic operations were they?
If a new one started in North Tyneside it would be open to anyone, PRIVATE HIRE too & in the worst scenario Bandits if they are still in Town!
IT WILL NEVER WORK???????????????
I know a Guy who said that about Foxhunters! and Briardene….It won’t work!
NO ONE KNOWS IF A GENERIC ASSOCIATION WOULD WORK WITHIN NT OR NOT!
No one said that they would get 800 drivers straight away, but build it up with good marketing and excellent standards, if possible (Financially) split the Association into 3-4 areas, one at the coast, one in North Shields HA HA! and one in Wallsend and when they are all up and running, merge them into one central office, in that way a Customer in Whitley would’nt be thinking that her Taxi is coming all the way from the Silverlink!

[Reply]
Comment by AMIGO on 1 September 2008:

Sounds like a really good idea, lets sort it out and have an office for the good of the drivers and stop making the rich richer……..

[Reply]
Comment by tc on 2 September 2008:

All joking aside chaps . this is 2008 now, there is plenty of technology out there to form ,some form of none profit making venture, to create work, but as mentioned it takes alot of drivers and some determination to make it work , BUT it can be done……

[Reply]
Comment by tommy on 2 September 2008:

i like this way of thinking!!! All the drivers made all these greedy operators who there are. Why not just join an assoiation and work 4 a not for profit office ??? but this needs to work as in droping the FARE CAHRGED to repay customers loylty and the money will come from the massive savings on the rip off rents we pay. Ian we know we arte getting riped off and i dont like it how would you like to have someone take out yore wallet and just take 100 pounds 4 nothing every week ypu would have to say something about it ,

[Reply]
Comment by JA on 2 September 2008:

I like this way of thinking to but i think it a bit strong to say drivers are bein ripped of. i for one owe my living to big operators who spend all the money on advertising an computers,desk clarks etc,so they got to charge rent to pay for it all.plus yhey are in busines to make a livin aswel ,they not a charity for poor taxi drivers.

[Reply]
Comment by yt on 2 September 2008:

So,you all want to set up,or be part of a non profit making operation for the benefit of the drivers.But here’s the big question Ladies & gents,HAVE ANY OF YOU GOT THE BALLS OR KNOW HOW TO DO IT!!!!!????

[Reply]
Comment by Subaru Sue on 2 September 2008:

yt, that is so typical and sexist of you lot, you want to drag yourself into the 21st century, there are women drivers as well, and i bet at least half of them have got bigger balls than you, and the other half would kick you in the balls for such sexist comments !!!!!

[Reply]
Comment by Johnno on 2 September 2008:

I wondered how long it would be before some Tosser came on here with some Polital Correctness crap. Women are capable of being Tossers Too! This site is about the Taxi trade and all it’s problems not wether we have Balls or Tits! I think yt was speaking Figuratively anyway.

[Reply]
Comment by admin on 2 September 2008:

Note from Admin. The Content of this site is,in the main submitted by members of all sides of the Trade. Hacks,Private Hire & Operators. Use of the Term ‘You Lot’ is therefore a nonsense as each contributor is a part of the ‘You Lot’ So by using that Term you are including yourself. It may also be wise not to assume that commenters are all men. I have asked yt to rethink his or her comment and it is up to him or her to edit it if he or she thinks fit. Thankyou for all your Contributions.

[Reply]
Comment by Stephen (FKA Central Enth.) on 3 September 2008:

JA!!!
How much work did you get poked to say that man!, “they are not a charity for poor Taxi drivers”, GET A BLOODY LIFE and open your eyes man!
SUBARU SUE!, Why do call yourself this?, do you have a Subaru plated in Berwick????
SEXIST!
Whats that?, it was OK early in the year for Venus Cars to open up in Benton, no one said nowt about that did they, their Ad in a free clasified said…”Female Taxi drivers wanted for new Female only Taxi office opening in North Tyneside, must have NT Badge”, they sounded like some Feminist Group on wheels, selling Tampax and perfume to customers etc, anyway they soon joined the Hunger machine and employed MEN! and Bandits, you see they are all at it…OWT FOR RENT EH!!!!!

[Reply]
Comment by yt on 3 September 2008:

Sue,as you can see,I have edited my comment.I hope this will now enable you to remove that chip from your shoulder.

[Reply]

toomanytaxis

Out of area Hackney carriages: By I.S.

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